Mr Lebowski

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Posts by Mr Lebowski

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  29

  Why do members here have a fascination with telling us they're leaving ?

  by run dont walk in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  maybe i am way out of line with the comments i am about to make, and i may offend some people,this is not my intention ............ but why do members of this board make a big deal that they are leaving the board ???.

  i just don't get it, are we all here, like a big circle of friends, would you tell your immediate circle of friends you won't see them anymore because you have no time ???.

  you do not have to post everyday or every week here, i take a break sometimes because yeah i don't have the time to post or start a topic, so, but it irks me when people say their life is too busy, or they have others thing to do and will not be posting here anymore.

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  Mr Lebowski

  Just for that I'm coming back.
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  8

  best wishes to all

  by Mr Lebowski in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well, the last few weeks have been entertaining... and they have reminded me that i have built up my life to a point where "former jw" is pretty low on the list of my defining attributes.

  and that's good.. while i want to serve as a support for those re-creating themselves after leaving, i think the best way that i can do that is by being happy, successful, and fulfilled, rather than letting "former jw" move back to the top of the list.

  farewell, all, and remember - living well is the best revenge.. love and doughnuts,.

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  Mr Lebowski

  well, the last few weeks have been entertaining... and they have reminded me that I have built up my life to a point where "former JW" is pretty low on the list of my defining attributes. And that's good.

  While I want to serve as a support for those re-creating themselves after leaving, I think the best way that I can do that is by being happy, successful, and fulfilled, rather than letting "former JW" move back to the top of the list.

  Farewell, all, and remember - living well is the best revenge.

  Love and doughnuts,

  El Duderino
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  207

  Jehovah's Witnesses Are Under Mind Control

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if you were to tell a witness that they were "brainwashed" or that they were "under mind control", they certainly would not rationally accept it.the reason is because witnesses cannot distinguish between mind control and "obeying the faithful and discreet slave".

  it is only after a person stops exposing himself to the subtle mind controlling tactics of the watchtower that a person can see how thoroughly duped they are in their beliefs.

  how might you be able to tell that you are no longer your own person, able to make your own decisions in your life?

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  Mr Lebowski

  good point.
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  207

  Jehovah's Witnesses Are Under Mind Control

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if you were to tell a witness that they were "brainwashed" or that they were "under mind control", they certainly would not rationally accept it.the reason is because witnesses cannot distinguish between mind control and "obeying the faithful and discreet slave".

  it is only after a person stops exposing himself to the subtle mind controlling tactics of the watchtower that a person can see how thoroughly duped they are in their beliefs.

  how might you be able to tell that you are no longer your own person, able to make your own decisions in your life?

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  Mr Lebowski

  I absolutely agree with both points, uc. I come down on the "influence/pressure/manipulate" side of the coin, but I understand the muddiness.
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  207

  Jehovah's Witnesses Are Under Mind Control

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if you were to tell a witness that they were "brainwashed" or that they were "under mind control", they certainly would not rationally accept it.the reason is because witnesses cannot distinguish between mind control and "obeying the faithful and discreet slave".

  it is only after a person stops exposing himself to the subtle mind controlling tactics of the watchtower that a person can see how thoroughly duped they are in their beliefs.

  how might you be able to tell that you are no longer your own person, able to make your own decisions in your life?

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  Mr Lebowski

  ...and no, it's not. But she might have some openings, min... you want me to check?
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  207

  Jehovah's Witnesses Are Under Mind Control

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if you were to tell a witness that they were "brainwashed" or that they were "under mind control", they certainly would not rationally accept it.the reason is because witnesses cannot distinguish between mind control and "obeying the faithful and discreet slave".

  it is only after a person stops exposing himself to the subtle mind controlling tactics of the watchtower that a person can see how thoroughly duped they are in their beliefs.

  how might you be able to tell that you are no longer your own person, able to make your own decisions in your life?

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  Mr Lebowski

  min, you don't get to speak for other people. I've talked to the same sort of people, and I've reported what they have said, as well as what mental health professionals have told me. If neither you nor I have actually been in the abusive relationship, we don't get to speak first hand. I'm not insulting anyone.I acknowledge that some of them may feel that way (as if they were not free to leave), but I do not acknowledge that that feeling is based on reality, thank goodness, since they eventually did leave.

  I have some very dear close friends with this background, min, and I would sooner insult you and your childish communication style than I would insult them in any way, even inadvertently.
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  37

  Disfellowshiping - Get a life

  by Pepper in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  disfellowship

  >> i have read many stories here about those who have been disfellowshiped.

  they express the pain of the experience, and the emotional trauma they experience.

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  Mr Lebowski

  whether or not this question was phrased in a way thati seemed sympathetic or compassionate (and yes, it was a bit 'sand-in-the-vaseline' to me), it brings up a good point.

  We are asked if we should have been surprised?

  From what I see, some are saying, I knew what to expect, but I didn't anticipate how much it would hurt. I had that expereince - I didn't realize the degree that those raised in the WTS are insulated from developing adult coping skills.

  Others are saying that they expected more respect, fairness, and honor than they received... that they had believed that the system was more fair, and individuals in it more principled, than turned out to be the case.

  As far as the "get a life" comment goes, I don't think it was compassionate or respectful, but it has some merit. It's easy to spend a lot of time looking backwards. Are we looking forwards as well? What are our goals? What kind of amazing, super-cool, incredible contributions are we going to make now? Because that's what it's all about, isn't it?

  We do not need to see what is behind us. Dean Martin, Cannonball Run
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  46

  How Does One Just Go Back To Family & Friends After Leaving The "Truth"?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if you've left all your family and friends for "the truth" and then you realize how everything you did was for nothing, how do you just go back, especially, if it's been 25 years???

  my wife is going thru this dillema right now.

  my daughter just went to a family member's birthday party for the 1st time yesterday and my wife feels as though she is unable to be involved because "what will the family think of her after all the birthdays and celebrations" she missed?

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  Mr Lebowski

  min, dunno if you want my 2 cents, but...the main thing that put off my family members was our "righteousness" about our beliefs. My mom was bad, but I was a little snot too (I know, hard to beleive). I have no idea if this applies to your wife's situation, and I do not attempt to tar her with the brush of my expereinces...

  Anyway, for me, it wasn't just making amends for having been a righteous pain in the ass (although I did). It was also stating and demonstrating that I wasn't going to be the righteous, black-and-white, judgemental person they had known before. I was going to listen, acknowledge that I didn't always have all the answers, and be more considerate of others opinons. This was remarkably easy - as concerned mama said, they want you all back. It will depend mostly on how your wife "defended the faith" while she was an active Witness. Since my family was pretty argumentative about it, I had some fences to mend that had more to do with our communication style than about the faith itself.

  Anyway, if they feel as if your wife will value them more than she did before, when she valued the belief system (I say this with all due respect, but I feel that at one point all JW's value the belief system more than non-JW family) then they will probably lovingly welcome her.

  Best wishes to both of you.
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  207

  Jehovah's Witnesses Are Under Mind Control

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if you were to tell a witness that they were "brainwashed" or that they were "under mind control", they certainly would not rationally accept it.the reason is because witnesses cannot distinguish between mind control and "obeying the faithful and discreet slave".

  it is only after a person stops exposing himself to the subtle mind controlling tactics of the watchtower that a person can see how thoroughly duped they are in their beliefs.

  how might you be able to tell that you are no longer your own person, able to make your own decisions in your life?

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  Mr Lebowski

  Jesus, Gary, if I wanted to read that much of the Watchtower...:)

  More on the question posed by min. I just had a conversation with a longtime friend who is a therapist of 20 years' standing (and female, if it matters). She confirmed the two categories I posted (1, fear, and 2, negative self-image compatible with the abuse).

  It is also her professional opinion (which may wind up a few of you, I suspect) that mind control of any kind is a myth, that controlling organizations of any stripe - religious, professional, etc., all attempt to influence our behavior,but that control of our minds is a far different thing. She felt that members of Scientology, Moonies, etc, are influenced by their groups, but that they are getting benefits from the structure that solve some problem, fill some void, or address some need in their lives at that time. People leave when they discern (not us, them!) a deficit in the benefits vs. the prices.

  Anyway, for what it's worth...

  Look both ways,

  Dudeman
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  42

  Is there one thing that convinces you that the JW's are wrong ???

  by run dont walk in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  doctrines, people, elders, family, beliefs, is there a certain thing that convinces you they are wrong ???.

  had a discussion with my mom the other day and she asked "how can you be so sure they are wrong ?".

  i picked two topics that i had not talked to her about ( already said the pedophile, un, generation stuff.).

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  Mr Lebowski

  Yah, reducing it to one thing is hard.

  1) Lack of respect/value for women as individuals

  2) Acceptance of such bible stories as the destruction of the city of Ai and the 42 kids being killed by the bear after teasing the balding prophet of God as fair and accurate events.

  3) Making the doctrinal structure so f#$#ing complicated... after a while (when you get older and you bull#$#% detector becomes more advanced) you can smell the dead rat behind the curtain. Occam's razor - the idea that the simplest possible explanation is likely the truth, is enough on its own to give the lie to this load of crap. An autistic three-year on peyote could come up with a better theology than this one.